Of the three following articles, one is from the newsgroup Society Culture Thai and the others are from Khun Visit. The former is written by Laurence Godfrey, a British lecturer who spent some time teaching in Thailand. His opinion may be deemed offensive for some Thais, but we do encourage any thoughful discussion that readers may have. SiamWEB.org thanks both for the writer's permission to post them here. To view Thai font see Siamweb.org's Thai talk.

As evidence of this I refer you to the posts in this very newsgroup. The Thai posters are for the most part the cream of Thai society in respect of their academic achievements and many of them are now studying for higher degrees within the US system. Yet if you consider what they write it is evident that the vast majority are extraordinarily backward in their political thinking and are barely able to tolerate even small departures from deeply ingrained ideas which they must have learned as conventional wisdom while still at elementary school. In short, the best educated of them mostly exhibit the problems that I identified above and I think the key to this must be the distorted and wrong-headed notions that they inherit from their Thai teachers (and from their families) at a very young age.

In conclusion, I think that substantial improvements in the Thai education system will not enable the Thais to make the quantum leap in the level of their political sophistication needed to place them on the same footing as a 20th century western European or North American. I suggest that this process requires many generations. It is easy for the Thais to delude themselves into thinking that they are on a par with the west because they can operate the same computers or because they can design and manufacturer integrated circuits, but these are skills that can be learned within one generation because they do not require fundamental changes to the way that the majority of people think. I think we are looking at development that takes hundreds of years, just as it took in the west, irrespective of the ease of global information exchange.

Laurence

The next two articles were submitted by the author of SiamWEB.org's earlier article " The wealth of a Nation", Khun Visit.

New Constitution + Decentralization + Thai Education

Concept/Idea of Decentralization for Education System

Reference: U.P. Lundgen; education Policymaking, Decentralization and evaluation 1990.

Weiler (1988) describes 3 models or arguments for decentralization behind various decentralization movements. His classification give a good analytical starting point as:

"Redistribution Model" which is predicted on the sharing of the power.
"Efficiency Model" which is geared to enhancing the cost effectiveness of education system through a more efficient development and management of available resource.
"Cultures of Learning Model" which emphasizes the decentralization of educational content.

The direction of the on going changes could be characterized in these four models. In moving from central steering or government towards more local steering or government, it seem that the question of who has the responsibility is sharpened.

However, in our country at the moment, the diffusion process of power transfer from each region from A to B or between political to professional responsibility represents a major problem! Therefore, the decentralization process from Central to Local [AB to CD] can not exist effectively at the present.

If it could be existed, what is the merit ?

Decentralization is actually the process that move a decision making from center to the peripheral. On the local level, one can test solutions and devise models to do. At the same time, it means that the central administrative units must be willing to concede power positions. Local experiments also run the risk of creation new demands for central solutions that are in line with local model.

However, regards to the cencept of Education Decentralization, it is neccessary to have an information about the predicted problems at a local level and this call for a coordination of information. By the way, if the central administrative units still follow a reactive policy and only deal with problems when they are acute and familiar with the established routines, decentalization is not an adequate solution. Active political governing and policy administration must master the problem that arises from the lack of coordination, result from the fragmentation within administration itself. Therefore, evaluation should be an instrument to collect data-gathering and valuation of education. It can fullfill the function of coordination of various areas of knowledge within social, political and professional fields.

CONCLUSION

It seem to us that the new trends for decentralization concept is an acceptable idea for making things to be better. Especially, on education system that need the distribution of the decision making process to local area in order to setup the suitable policy and administration for each region. However, this concept still need some of times to bring the principal into practice but it's worthwhile to be considered in this route as most of many countries try to follow this way in order to facilitate the quality of education in thier own nation.

Thailand also one country that need to be re-evaluated for our past educational development. There are some old and cronic problems, but there is a way to cure it. Education is the main key thing that can solve all the problem in the long term and sustainable approach for our country.

Best Regards,
Visit Vao-soongnern

Dear Everyone:

I post this message in order to mention about the idea to finda new of our Thai education system. Again, we are not an Educationmajor. But Just want to share some ideas.

Best Wish
Visit

Education for all

A basic concept of educational policy should be in that "Educationfor all". The aim throughout this century should probably be to raise thelevel of education by :

• Extending the length of schooling.
• Providing equal opportunities for all.
• Providing teaching adapted to each individual.

In turning to the globalization era, today attention should befocused on the content and quality of education. All programs andactivities reflect that education must be concerned with the needs anddemands of society. Special emphasis is now being placed onto preparingthe young for the information society and new technologies.

In our internationally oriented society, characterized by rapidchanges and huge inflow of information from all sources, some of the basicfunctions of education will be:

• To develop the student's ability to think and evaluate in a constructive and creative manner.
• To teach effective work habits and self-discipline.
• To develop intellectual curiosity and desire for life-long learning.
• To develop the awareness of the relationships with the rest of the world community and to foster international understanding.

In a period involving internationalization and freer movement of people, knowledge of foreign languages and culture is essential.Therefore, it has been important to strengthen the provision for foreign language teaching and learning.

Educational Decentralization

The old system was based on strong 'positive discriminant'. This made it possible to transfer much larger funds to rural and peripheral areas. Consequently, differences in the quality of schooling offered had been avoided. Curriculum are developed centrally for primary and secondary education. The plans usaully define a core curriculum, but offer considerable leeway for local adaptions. The main trend should bemore towards local autonomy in the development of the curriculum.

Legal instruments play an important role in central governmentpolicy for education. Regulations on work environment, safety, buildings and other facilities also applied to education.

The class size, the lenght of school year, the minimum number of lessons, teaching obligations are 'centrally determined'.

The size and location of schools, the hiring of teachers and the daily running of school are 'locally determined'.

Also, the main trend should be toward more local autonomy in the development of curriculum.

Conclusion ----------

This should be probably a broad agreement that we need to strengthen the international aspects of the curriculum. This is considered neccessary for a small country in an increasingly integrated world. However, a small country needs to fight for their own cultural identity. Therefore, the Thai language and the transmission of our cultural heritage need strengthening. Furthermore, mathematics and natural sciences are important as well as civics and basic technological understanding.

In addition, the school is supported to introduce the youngsters to adult life with all the problems and chalenges it involves. This includes peace and international understanding, environment issues and the fight against drugs, racism, alcohol and tobacco, sexual behavior,hygiene, traffic rules, democracy etc.

Unfortunately, teachers feel somewhat overburdened by all demands. Many of them argue that they are not appropiately paid, and some have left school to find other job.

Ref: M. Granheim; Evaluation as policy making, Jessica Kingsley Publishers, London. 1990.

• Ratthanawan Kaewpanya (Mee+) < r2rk1@dax.cc.uakron.edu>
• Visit Vao-soongnern (King+) < visit@charles.polymer.uakron.edu>
• Ittipol Jangchud (Aom) < ittipol@polymer.uakron.edu>
• Chawala Chayabutra (Lord) < r2cc@dax.cc.uakron.edu>
• Anucha Chancharas (Pong) < r2ac@dax.cc.uakron.edu>
  The University of Akron,
  Akron, OH 44325-3909 USA

Visit Vao-soongnern

More articles about education in Thailand:

• The bangkok.com education wwwboard.
• Siamweb.org's my-voice "New generation of Thinkers".

Establishing links with overseas' universities is another bridge to use in globalisation of Thai education. I am from Curtin University in Perth, Western Australia and will be happy to extend assistance to any Thai universities or parties who are interested in pursuing this direction.

Sim Michael <SimM@cbs.curtin.edu.au> from 134.7.79.127 on Monday, June 05, 2000 at 14:26:27

I would like to know about where can I find out about study in master degree in thailand?Can somebody tell me how to find it in internet? please

rwittaya <Rwittaya@hotmail.com> from loxppp11-sp2.suapha.loxinfo.net on Friday, July 30, 1999 at 18:57:52

Can we say that an apple is more tasty than a mango? The comment made by Mr. Laurence Godfrey, to me has the same meaning as the question which I have already asked. It is impossible for you to make any critical judgement by using another set of rules that does not to apply to this equation. Things are not as easy as they seem. Though, I admit that we as Thais have many educational aspects which are in need of repair, but do not say that the West does not have problems of it's own. I do recall that recently there was a school shooting in the US. committed by a young teenaged boy, or about the rate of drugs and substance abuse that is incredibly high in the West, and the most shocking thing is that these are children who are doing it. They are the people who are suppose to grow up and become the core and the power of the nation. Let me ask you a question then Mr. Godfrey, Who is responsible for these things in the West? If you say that it's the shild his/herself. Then where did he or she obtain these vile and vicious manners from? If not from home then it is from the school! From the home, why aren't these parents educating their children? I believe that it is clear that they themselves do not know how to plant these morals and ethics into their own children. Not that they do not want to, but because they do not know how to! Why? This is a very simple and clear answer, the essence of the West's educational educational system have been in a coma for a very long period of time. Over this period not only has the West's educational system become stagnant, but it has also fallen behind. I do not know whether other people can see it or not, but to me I see it as a result of a blind and erratic race for materialistic matters. The West has gone from being mammal to becoming money-mal. It is not to say that Thailand has not but I still think that in Thailand's case it's still curable, if we Thais really try. When you see percieve things from only 2 dimensions, it is definite that you'll not be able to see anything very clearly, for you tend to lack the depth needed and to evaluate and judge, and then you lack time to observe the changes , the course, and the most likely trend or possiblity which will happen. Like I said before, How can you compare the taste of an a prune with that of a mango? All I know is that if you eat too many of them, no matter which one you will mostly get a very bad diarrhea. My views are just something that came up to me as I read the messages above. I believe that there is no right and wrong in believing, but it is important to be reasonable to each other. After all everybody is hoping for the best for Thailand! I do admit that Thailand does have grave problem which needs immediate attention, but even more I strongly believe that if we believe hard enough and start doing what we believe in, success is not that far away. Success is right in front of your face, stop covering your ears and closing your eyes, use your eyes and your sense of perception to aim, reach out your arms and then grab it. It's that easy so stop trying to find things with your nose, for when your don't see things nor hear things it is very hard to find the thing that you want, and usually it is more dangerous to try to find thing that way. If anybody have any comment or would like to have any exchanges on this subject please contact me. I would be most grateful. One more minor note, if there are any mistakes grammatically or other wise, please forgive me, for I didn't sleep tonight. Thank you again for sharing my thoughts.

Peking man <hankun@hotmail.com> from 202.99.62.220 on Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 05:09:26

Can we say that an apple is more tasty than a mango? The comment made by Mr. Laurence Godfrey, to me has the same meaning as the question which I have already asked. It is impossible for you to make any critical judgement by using another set of rules that does not to apply to this equation. Things are not as easy as they seem. Though, I admit that we as Thais have many educational aspects which are in need of repair, but do not say that the West does not have problems of it's own. I do recall that recently there was a school shooting in the US. committed by a young teenaged boy, or about the rate of drugs and substance abuse that is incredibly high in the West, and the most shocking thing is that these are children who are doing it. They are the people who are suppose to grow up and become the core and the power of the nation. Let me ask you a question then Mr. Godfrey, Who is responsible for these things in the West? If you say that it's the shild his/herself. Then where did he or she obtain these vile and vicious manners from? If not from home then it is from the school! From the home, why aren't these parents educating their children? I believe that it is clear that they themselves do not know how to plant these morals and ethics into their own children. Not that they do not want to, but because they do not know how to! Why? This is a very simple and clear answer, the essence of the West's educational educational system have been in a coma for a very long period of time. Over this period not only has the West's educational system become stagnant, but it has also fallen behind. I do not know whether other people can see it or not, but to me I see it as a result of a blind and erratic race for materialistic matters. The West has gone from being mammal to becoming money-mal. It is not to say that Thailand has not but I still think that in Thailand's case it's still curable, if we Thais really try. When you see percieve things from only 2 dimensions, it is definite that you'll not be able to see anything very clearly, for you tend to lack the depth needed and to evaluate and judge, and then you lack time to observe the changes , the course, and the most likely trend or possiblity which will happen. Like I said before, How can you compare the taste of an a prune with that of a mango? All I know is that if you eat too many of them, no matter which one you will mostly get a very bad diarrhea. My views are just something that came up to me as I read the messages above. I believe that there is no right and wrong in believing, but it is important to be reasonable to each other. After all everybody is hoping for the best for Thailand! I do admit that Thailand does have grave problem which needs immediate attention, but even more I simple and clear answer, the essence of the West's educational educational system have been in a coma for a very long period of time. Over this period not only has the West's educational system become stagnant, but it has also fallen behind. I do not know whether other people can see it or not, but to me I see it as a result of a blind and erratic race for materialistic matters. The West has gone from being mammal to becoming money-mal. It is not to say that Thailand has not but I still think that in Thailand's case it's still curable, if we Thais really try. When you see percieve things from only 2 dimensions, it is definite that you'll not be able t

Peking man <hankun@hotmail.com> from 202.99.62.220 on Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 05:07:38

I, too, think that Laurence Godfrey grossly overgeneralises. In the two years that I have been teaching in Thailand, I have met many highly educated students, who are quite capable of independent thought. Indeed, many of the students that I have taught would shame their counterparts in Europe or America. I think the problem with the Thai education system is more fundamental, in that teachers are underpaid, class sizes are too big and students become too obsessed with the entrance exams. The best thing that could happen to the education system in Thailand would be for exams to become essay-based rather than always using multiple choice questions. Writing leads to more creative thought. It is ashame that most teachers are so against this idea.

Dr Hamish Morrsion <hamish@asiaaccess.net.th> from pa14_213.asiaaccess.net.th on Tuesday, February 17, 1998 at 09:16:22

LAURENCE IS A DUMBASS BITCH

THAIPRIDEINSOUTHEASTSIDE from atl-ga19-11.ix.netcom.com on Thursday, January 29, 1998 at 20:55:30

It is quite true that Mr. Laurence Godfrey's comment suffered from certain generalisation. However, one must not take that too personal as to neglect the real implication of the passage. We do not have to be too afraid of accepting certain weaknesses and improve. Certain social problems in our community can be traced back to the root cause which is the education system. It is not a sin to learn from the West so long as we know how to apply to our circumstances. It is when an unmodified copy is used that we will be worried. As in the book of Dr Covey (7 Habbits of highly effective people) points out, the last 50 years, Americans have been obssessed with the Personality Ethic which emphazises quick fix to problems and will eventually cause more problems. Thai society, however seem to follow that trend. As long as we managed to adapt from what we learn and are not afraid to break new ground, and one who does should be supported, then I think we can expect respect from stronger nations. It is not only the present stage that counts, it is the speed of development that deserves more respect. Thank you and ready to hear comments from others.

Konfha C. <kongfhac@rocketmail.com> from pa14_225.asiaaccess.net.th on Monday, January 26, 1998 at 12:13:21

good

Adisak <taro@ksc15.th.com> from l130ppp218.ksc.net.th on Sunday, November 30, 1997 at 00:43:33

Chan Yoon Jee's comment, while possibly suffering from over- generalization as does Lawrence Godfrey's, does offer a glimpse of how Thais abroad are generally perceived. However, merely ranting about how a people behave and how much they spend won't help solve anything. Chan Yoon Jee himself should even owe some gratitude to Thais who travel to Singapore and spend money there, boosting his country's economy. (It is plausible that during this economic downturn, when most Thais stop travelling abroad, many local businesses are losing a significant amount of money -- but that's what it is.) But that's not the point at all. Thais used to travel abroad a lot and spend a lot of money; they don't seem to be so serious as to stay whole day long in museums or in lecture halls. So what!?

So it means all Thais are boor heads? So Chan Yoon Jee seems (wishfully) to think. But why didn't it dawn to him how these Thais got themselves rich in the first place? Through sheer feudal exploitation? Are these Thais lords and ladies of the old times who inherit a huge amount of heirlooms? Do they beat and torture the hapless serfs and peasants and tax them to death, financing their travels aboard? Well, that seems to be what Chan Yoon Jee is leading us to believe. But the fact is that all of these Thais are no lords and ladies. That category died away at least a century ago. These Thais are all business people; some may have grandparents or great grandparents as lords or ladies, but that does not matter a bit. They earned their money through sheer hard work, and it's nobody's business to tell them how they are to spend their money.

Back to Lawrence Godfrey's original post. I am convinced his remark that it would take many generations of Thais to make "fundamental changes to the way that the majority of people think" is totally false. The same could be said to the Russians a century ago, but look at how the Russians lifted themselves up from feudalism to a world superpower in only a few decades. And imagine how they would fare if they had not been hampered by communism and central control.

In the same vein, someone might also say the same to the Japanese or the Chinese. For example a Lawrence Godfrey might be saying some years ago that the Chinese did not know how to think critically, and that it would take many generations them to know how to, if ever. Look at history, Lawrence.

Soraj Hongladarom <hsoraj@chula.ac.th> from ppp-9.chula.edu on Tuesday, October 07, 1997 at 15:53:19

First of all, I would like to commend Khun Laurence for his daring and incisive comments on Thai education. Unlike Khun Soraj, I don't think he has missed the mark at all. He did make some general statements and like all general statements, there are exceptions. Exceptions don't make the general statements untrue.

Being a regular at SCT, I share many of Khun Laurence's observations. Apart from the immature and shallow rantings from quite a number of SCT participants who are supposed to represent the cream of Thailand, I also notice the lack of depth and education in daily happenings in Thailand.

Just take travel for example. Earlier on, an essayist on the Thai economy pointed out that the average Thai spends 7 times more while travelling in other countries than the average foreigner spends in Thailand. One reason could be that only the very rich in Thailand can afford to travel. But what I observe is that the majority of Thai travellers don't bother to research their trips and destinations. They don't visit museums, study the culture with the same enthusiasm that many farang tourists in Thailand visit cultural sites and study Thai society while they budget on food and accommodation. The Thais just want to shop and eat. There is a lack of curiosity and hunger for knowledge is far outweighed by hunger for food.

I for one, believe that the problems will take many generations to solve because there are so many other participating factors like politics and the economy being involved. How can Thailand stop teachers from quitting their jobs to become tour guides? Without first solving its economic problems, it is difficult to improve the standard of education (for the general public and not just privileged souls like Khun Soraj) in Thailand. That alone may take a generation or two.

Chan Joon Yee <rinpoche@pacific.net.sg> from palo10.pacific.net.sg on Tuesday, October 07, 1997 at 11:16:08

I think Godfrey just missed the mark by a long short when he said that it would require many generations of Thais to get to be on the same level of educational development as the West. His claim is totally unsubstantiated, and is easily refuted by the existence of many highly qualified people, some of whom are even teaching and researching in leading educational institutions of the West.

Soraj Hongladarom <hsoraj@chula.ac.th> from turtle.netserv.chula.ac.th on Monday, September 29, 1997 at 12:25:54

Dear Khun Yujira:

I thought that was a well accepted criticism, don’t you think? A good lawyer will never pledge guilty unless he has to. Accepting guilt means their will be no good fight, only wait for the sentencing. :)

By the way, authorities are also welcome here on an equal ground basis. We are always encourage people to think and response. Readers are intelligent enough to make their own judgments.

Johnny.C <Johnny.c@oj.dream.team.com> from ip22.ifu.net on Saturday, September 06, 1997 at 19:26:08

ÊÇÑÊ´Õ......¤ÃѺ.

kongkeat h. from 202.44.224.62 on Friday, September 05, 1997 at 14:05:46

In reference to the term 'ugly Englishman':
While Mr. Godfrey's post suffers from generalization, one shouldn't generalize about all his opinions. Some of his observations are convincing, especially the ones on our obsession with conformity which we, Thais, are taught at a very young age. Freedom of expression is another thing that we might be lacking. Some of us don't take criticism (constructive or not) very well. Siamweb.org has experienced first hand by running into problems with authorities who want to censor our posts. Stubbornly, we've never complied. If siamweb.org disappears one of these days, we won't be surprised. :)

Now back to Thai education.

Yujira <yxj4@po.cwru.edu> from ces04263.ces.cwru.edu on Thursday, September 04, 1997 at 21:05:04

In response to the noise from Laurence an English man who definitely has an attitude problem. His comments are full of stereotypes, assumptions and unsystematic prediction. Reading his article, make me believe that I am reading opinions from an uneducated person. If somehow he is educated, this person must have had a bad personal experience staying in Thailand. He has been waiting for an opportunity to get even and to attack Thai way of life in general.

Many people might have heard of the words ugly American. When some (ugly) Americans go to other countries they always think that their way of thinking is the one and only way that work. Most Americans have come a long way in accepting other people’s believes. Could this be an opinions of an ugly English man.

Thailand is a free country where individuals have the right to think and express their ideas politically. Many people have read the posters from this web site and may or may not agree with the comments but no one has used individual opinions to attack the system. His article is a sure cheap shot to me.

PakWann <por4@watyai.elementary .skool.edu> from ip37.ifu.net on Thursday, September 04, 1997 at 16:36:03